lilo777
Apr 23, 12:48 AM
You enjoy seeing every issue from the perspective of someone who wants Apple to fail.
Apple cares very deeply about their product, which is why they don't give in to every spec junkie who demands the latest and greatest immediately. The current chips don't give a usable battery life in Apple's eyes. If you want to get a phone that eats batteries that's your business, but Apple doesn't have an interest in developing anything like that.
Nope. I see every issue from the consumer perspective - as I should (being a consumer). Any other perspective would be an abomination (unless for those who hold tons of AAPL shares).
Phrases like "in Apple's eyes" is a good example of what I am talking about. Apple does not use iPhones, consumers do. Consumer eyse are the only eyes that matter. And that is exactly why people are switching to Android. If Apple cares more about what they think is right than what I think is right (for me) it would be stupid for me to care about what Apple thinks or does.
They would still have to use two chips as I understand it: one to support CDMA and then the other to support LTE.
I doubt that but even if that was the case then what? Every other phone manufacturer on the planet can design a phone that has LTE and Apple could not? Because they spend on R&D much less than any other hi-tech company of comparable size?
And there we have it friends! This guy has no clue what he's talking about. There are no hybrid LTE/3G chips available yet, so the multiple chips thing has nothing to do with GSM/CDMA. If Apple wanted to support 3G AND LTE which they would have to do considering how scarce LTE is at the moment, the only way for them to do it is to use two chips. Battery life would drain.
Here's a site for you to consider: Thunderbolt Battery Life (http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/03/18/htc-thunderbolt-battery-life/)
This is what people are talking about when they say the iPhone's battery life would be horrible. It has nothing to do with a hybrid CDMA/GSM chip, and has everything to do with the lack of a hybrid 3G/LTE chip.
In fact, hybrid CDMA/GSM chips exist, and are already being used by Apple.
You miss the point. I did not investigate the details about the number of chips. Not everyone cares. The point here is that there many people who want LTE and the there is Apple with their "single phone fits all" strategy. Here is a piece of relevant information for you from Information Week:
"In its recently quarterly earnings report, Verizon Wireless noted that more than 500,000 customers signed up for LTE services and/or devices during its most recent quarter. Add that to the 65,000 who signed up in December, and Verizon has about 565,000 people using its next-generation wireless network. At this rate, Verizon may have more than 2 million 4G users by the end of the year.
Of the 500,000 who signed up for 4G services this quarter, more than half (260,000) chose a 4G phone--the HTC Thunderbolt--that went on sale in mid-March. It scored a significant number of customers in its first two weeks of availability. That means between January 1 and March 15, about 240,000 people purchased other 4G devices, such as USB modems."
As you can see 260K people bought HTC Thunderbolt since Verizon started selling them (about a month). This translates to about 3 million phones annually. Clearly the demand is there. Also, you keep forgetting that other phones have swappable batteries.
Apple cares very deeply about their product, which is why they don't give in to every spec junkie who demands the latest and greatest immediately. The current chips don't give a usable battery life in Apple's eyes. If you want to get a phone that eats batteries that's your business, but Apple doesn't have an interest in developing anything like that.
Nope. I see every issue from the consumer perspective - as I should (being a consumer). Any other perspective would be an abomination (unless for those who hold tons of AAPL shares).
Phrases like "in Apple's eyes" is a good example of what I am talking about. Apple does not use iPhones, consumers do. Consumer eyse are the only eyes that matter. And that is exactly why people are switching to Android. If Apple cares more about what they think is right than what I think is right (for me) it would be stupid for me to care about what Apple thinks or does.
They would still have to use two chips as I understand it: one to support CDMA and then the other to support LTE.
I doubt that but even if that was the case then what? Every other phone manufacturer on the planet can design a phone that has LTE and Apple could not? Because they spend on R&D much less than any other hi-tech company of comparable size?
And there we have it friends! This guy has no clue what he's talking about. There are no hybrid LTE/3G chips available yet, so the multiple chips thing has nothing to do with GSM/CDMA. If Apple wanted to support 3G AND LTE which they would have to do considering how scarce LTE is at the moment, the only way for them to do it is to use two chips. Battery life would drain.
Here's a site for you to consider: Thunderbolt Battery Life (http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/03/18/htc-thunderbolt-battery-life/)
This is what people are talking about when they say the iPhone's battery life would be horrible. It has nothing to do with a hybrid CDMA/GSM chip, and has everything to do with the lack of a hybrid 3G/LTE chip.
In fact, hybrid CDMA/GSM chips exist, and are already being used by Apple.
You miss the point. I did not investigate the details about the number of chips. Not everyone cares. The point here is that there many people who want LTE and the there is Apple with their "single phone fits all" strategy. Here is a piece of relevant information for you from Information Week:
"In its recently quarterly earnings report, Verizon Wireless noted that more than 500,000 customers signed up for LTE services and/or devices during its most recent quarter. Add that to the 65,000 who signed up in December, and Verizon has about 565,000 people using its next-generation wireless network. At this rate, Verizon may have more than 2 million 4G users by the end of the year.
Of the 500,000 who signed up for 4G services this quarter, more than half (260,000) chose a 4G phone--the HTC Thunderbolt--that went on sale in mid-March. It scored a significant number of customers in its first two weeks of availability. That means between January 1 and March 15, about 240,000 people purchased other 4G devices, such as USB modems."
As you can see 260K people bought HTC Thunderbolt since Verizon started selling them (about a month). This translates to about 3 million phones annually. Clearly the demand is there. Also, you keep forgetting that other phones have swappable batteries.
southernpaws
Apr 22, 03:26 PM
The fact is, we've been through this before. The iPhone 1 was going to be a huge failure because it didn't have 3G. They were concerned about coverage and battery life. It's the same issue now.
People are saying apple should make those sacrifices now to keep up with technology. But nobody is addressing the fact that apple has historical evidence that this is a sound approach.
People are saying apple should make those sacrifices now to keep up with technology. But nobody is addressing the fact that apple has historical evidence that this is a sound approach.
aswitcher
Jul 25, 05:39 AM
The existing iPods already are lickable, though the 3rd gen controls are a little more convenient than the click wheel and button interfaces. Feel free to take my word on this, and if you feel the need to confirm, remember that it's probably rude in most places to lick someone else's iPod without asking nicely first.
Ok, now I need to see all that in a silhouette Apple add.
Ok, now I need to see all that in a silhouette Apple add.
GregAndonian
Mar 29, 05:51 PM
Apple stole the upward curve effect in that logo from the Inception poster. ;):D
more...
ciTiger
Apr 28, 10:05 AM
So even when Apple's expectation are cut in half they still manage to get ahead? hum....
DaBlackMamba
Mar 15, 01:42 AM
I am going to head out to mine at around 8 AM when the mall opens and the apple store is opening 1 hour early so at 9 AM hopefully I can grab my 16GB 3G ATT.
Even though ATT reception sucks in some places around OC, I don't use the 3G too much so it's better for the money and the free month.
Even though ATT reception sucks in some places around OC, I don't use the 3G too much so it's better for the money and the free month.
more...
MBHockey
Nov 3, 01:03 PM
In Fusion, can you have more than the measly 8MB of vram that Parallels gives you to work with in Windows?
CAD programs barely run with 8MB of vram.
CAD programs barely run with 8MB of vram.
doug in albq
Apr 22, 07:35 PM
I have a gen 4 iPT and an iPhone 4.
I highly doubt this thin form for the next iPhone.
This rumor is BS
Edit: When iPhone 4 leaked early I thought that design was spot on and would in fact be the new design while the peeps resistant to change balked. This new design is poor and a step back. I love change, but not change that sucks.
Josh creating BS because he wants some attention, nothing more.
I highly doubt this thin form for the next iPhone.
This rumor is BS
Edit: When iPhone 4 leaked early I thought that design was spot on and would in fact be the new design while the peeps resistant to change balked. This new design is poor and a step back. I love change, but not change that sucks.
Josh creating BS because he wants some attention, nothing more.
more...
wedge antilies
Jul 28, 10:21 AM
I agree. I like MS strategy. They want to get their foot in the door and compete, then sell you all kinds of other ish. Look at the XBOX/XBOX 360, they may sell them at a loss, but with the Software, XBOX Live, and the Marketplace, they are making their money.
No they are still not making money....From a Forbes article 2005/09/12..
linkypoo (http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2005/09/12/microsoft-management-software_cz_vm_0913microsoft.html)
"The Xbox game console is hot, but its division has lost $4 billion in four years and isn't yet in the black."
And as for the success of the XBox 360 from bink.nu (july 23)
bink link (http://bink.nu/Article7827.bink)
"Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division, home to the Xbox, posted a hefty fiscal year loss of $1.26 billion, thanks largely to losses involved with the Xbox 360. For Microsoft's fourth quarter, losses in the Home and Entertainment division were $414 million. Microsoft says they have shipped 5 million Xbox 360 units worldwide as of the end of June, roughly seven and a half months after launch."
Having said that I do own a Xbox, and will probably buy an Xbox 360 when Halo 3 comes out. And a PS3. And a Wii.
The fact is the Xbox 360 really isn't sellilng that well outside the US, where it has sold 3.3 mil units, in Europe it has sold only 1.3 mil, and more embarrasingly only 0.4 mil in the rest of the world INCLUDING Japan. In fact for the week ending 16th July only 1105 Xbox 360s were sold in Japan, compared to 140,858 DS LItes, and less than one tenth of the sales of the DS phat and less than one twentieth of the PS2, during the same time.
Microsofts home and entertainment division just lost $414million in the last quarter!
I just don't think you should say that the Xbox has been a success, it is possible, however success is a long way off.
-Red 2.
No they are still not making money....From a Forbes article 2005/09/12..
linkypoo (http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2005/09/12/microsoft-management-software_cz_vm_0913microsoft.html)
"The Xbox game console is hot, but its division has lost $4 billion in four years and isn't yet in the black."
And as for the success of the XBox 360 from bink.nu (july 23)
bink link (http://bink.nu/Article7827.bink)
"Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division, home to the Xbox, posted a hefty fiscal year loss of $1.26 billion, thanks largely to losses involved with the Xbox 360. For Microsoft's fourth quarter, losses in the Home and Entertainment division were $414 million. Microsoft says they have shipped 5 million Xbox 360 units worldwide as of the end of June, roughly seven and a half months after launch."
Having said that I do own a Xbox, and will probably buy an Xbox 360 when Halo 3 comes out. And a PS3. And a Wii.
The fact is the Xbox 360 really isn't sellilng that well outside the US, where it has sold 3.3 mil units, in Europe it has sold only 1.3 mil, and more embarrasingly only 0.4 mil in the rest of the world INCLUDING Japan. In fact for the week ending 16th July only 1105 Xbox 360s were sold in Japan, compared to 140,858 DS LItes, and less than one tenth of the sales of the DS phat and less than one twentieth of the PS2, during the same time.
Microsofts home and entertainment division just lost $414million in the last quarter!
I just don't think you should say that the Xbox has been a success, it is possible, however success is a long way off.
-Red 2.
res1233
Apr 14, 02:32 AM
Maybe a sign of universal iOS+Mac apps?
It wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to provide something like Rosetta for iDevice apps. It sounds extremely un-apple though. The only reason Apple provided Rosetta was to ease the PowerPC-Intel transition. I don't think there is any real benefit here because many iDevice apps would not translate well to a mouse and keyboard. It's possible that new iOS apps would have a "mac mode" that would solve this, so who knows.
It wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to provide something like Rosetta for iDevice apps. It sounds extremely un-apple though. The only reason Apple provided Rosetta was to ease the PowerPC-Intel transition. I don't think there is any real benefit here because many iDevice apps would not translate well to a mouse and keyboard. It's possible that new iOS apps would have a "mac mode" that would solve this, so who knows.
more...
daneoni
Apr 22, 10:15 AM
Give us a 4.3" screen so the phone would have to be somewhat bigger - big enough to support two chips for 3G and 4G.
Tony
No thanks.
4.0 max whilst retaining current size. It's a phone not a tablet.
Tony
No thanks.
4.0 max whilst retaining current size. It's a phone not a tablet.
Cuthbert
Apr 13, 01:49 PM
wohoo!
I would be greatly interested in this. Likely would not buy the first generation. It would aso depend on size and actual features. Ive been greatly disappointed in the revamp of the apple tv and am looking for apple to do more for my living room than this past pathetic attempt at ATV2.
I would be greatly interested in this. Likely would not buy the first generation. It would aso depend on size and actual features. Ive been greatly disappointed in the revamp of the apple tv and am looking for apple to do more for my living room than this past pathetic attempt at ATV2.
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Designer Dale
Apr 12, 01:49 PM
Just been on a business trip to Florida and stayed at a hotel in West Palm Beach. The car park and surrounding area were planted with these trees. I think they're banyan trees, a type of fig. Can anyone confirm or otherwise? At night it was lovely to stroll outside and listen to the insects chirping. The lights in the car park lit the trees from underneath giving them a very LOTR look! We were taking a big exhibition with us and everything was just on the limit weight-wise so I daren't even take a monopod, it was so close, so the camera was hand held for this photo. It's not sharp enough to enlarge but wanted to share the look of the place!
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8266/banyan.jpg
Looks like a Strangler Fig. There is interesting info in the Wiki link below.
Ficus aurea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus_aurea)
Dale
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8266/banyan.jpg
Looks like a Strangler Fig. There is interesting info in the Wiki link below.
Ficus aurea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus_aurea)
Dale
DeathChill
Apr 23, 06:59 PM
Maybe they're testing this so that when AT&T and T-Mo combine, future iPhones will be able to use the T-Mobile 3G bands, even though the phone would still be exclusive to AT&T (and of course, Verizon).
Or maybe the delay for the iPhone 5 is support for all major US carriers? That would be nice for you Americans!
Or maybe the delay for the iPhone 5 is support for all major US carriers? That would be nice for you Americans!
more...
wordoflife
Oct 20, 09:52 PM
To be honest, I kind of have everything I want. (mainly my Mac and phone). I think for Christmas I would like a few hundred bucks (just incase I wanted to buy something) and certainly a new watch, which I might end up buying myself before then.
SciFrog
Oct 16, 08:55 PM
With all of my machines (8) I am pulling 25k ppd. The '09 mac pro 2x2.66 is doing 4-5 min per frame for normal units - I'm afraid to change anything right now so I don't lose momentum.
You should be able to pull 20k ppd with that machine only with the bigadv units...
You should be able to pull 20k ppd with that machine only with the bigadv units...
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Schtumple
Jul 14, 02:56 PM
Lol
See below :p
Are we keeping this thread up forever, yesterdays news, pull it!:cool:
See below :p
Are we keeping this thread up forever, yesterdays news, pull it!:cool:
m3digi
Apr 18, 12:17 AM
I'm a little confused. People want to play games on this?
Would not be my first choice for gaming (not that I play games, but I did do flight sims once)
Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Maybe external monitor resolution? Movies?....I don't think so.
Big problem for intensive video stuff perhaps? but then again; an Air?
:confused:
Some of the things I've seen people propose for the MacBook Air are completely ridiculous. There are Pro offerings currently available that meet these requirements. Yet, somehow people have this idea that the MBA should have Pro capabilities, a multitude of connectivity options, and ultra efficiency in an ultraportable form factor.
Doesn't that seem to defeat the point of the system being named MacBook 'Air'?
Would not be my first choice for gaming (not that I play games, but I did do flight sims once)
Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Maybe external monitor resolution? Movies?....I don't think so.
Big problem for intensive video stuff perhaps? but then again; an Air?
:confused:
Some of the things I've seen people propose for the MacBook Air are completely ridiculous. There are Pro offerings currently available that meet these requirements. Yet, somehow people have this idea that the MBA should have Pro capabilities, a multitude of connectivity options, and ultra efficiency in an ultraportable form factor.
Doesn't that seem to defeat the point of the system being named MacBook 'Air'?
donlphi
Jul 27, 03:39 AM
I think Apple Marketing thinks they're slick with their blatant patent advertising/marketing to create buzz on potential new products. I think its fairly lame.
How is getting people in Blogs to react to something "LAME"?
I love the fact that Apple gets the world excited about new products that are coming in the future (or not coming). I love the idea of being kept in the dark until the release date. I love checking back on this site and other sites to see what the predictions are. I even love it when there is a slight let down because what I thought was coming, didn't make it.
APPLE doesn't have much in a choice about keeping patents secret. We (the over-curious consumers) are the ones making all the hype for them.
I don't see Steve Jobs thinking, "YES... now all we need to do is up our advertising by coming out with a new PATENT!!!"
That is rediculous. Sure, he knows there are losers out there that have nothing better to do than sit in their home and research stuff like that so they can be the first ones to post it in their blog, but I doubt they sit around and think about how this helps advertising.
If nothing else, I would think they do not want these patents to be talked about because they want consumers to purchase the products that are out now, not WAIT AROUND for the better product to come out. LOOK at powermac sales as they switched to intel. The average consumer doesn't look at this sight, they just go to BEST BUY and see what item cost the least amount of money.
I think after this CREATIVE lawsuit and countersuit mess, they are just making sure they have everything covered if they are going to stay on top.
"BLATANT PATENT ADVERTISING" - it's like saying a woman that is 9 months pregnant is BLATANTLY ADVERTISING she is about to have a baby.
Anybody that is paying attention is going to notice!
Other than that... I agree with everything you said.
How is getting people in Blogs to react to something "LAME"?
I love the fact that Apple gets the world excited about new products that are coming in the future (or not coming). I love the idea of being kept in the dark until the release date. I love checking back on this site and other sites to see what the predictions are. I even love it when there is a slight let down because what I thought was coming, didn't make it.
APPLE doesn't have much in a choice about keeping patents secret. We (the over-curious consumers) are the ones making all the hype for them.
I don't see Steve Jobs thinking, "YES... now all we need to do is up our advertising by coming out with a new PATENT!!!"
That is rediculous. Sure, he knows there are losers out there that have nothing better to do than sit in their home and research stuff like that so they can be the first ones to post it in their blog, but I doubt they sit around and think about how this helps advertising.
If nothing else, I would think they do not want these patents to be talked about because they want consumers to purchase the products that are out now, not WAIT AROUND for the better product to come out. LOOK at powermac sales as they switched to intel. The average consumer doesn't look at this sight, they just go to BEST BUY and see what item cost the least amount of money.
I think after this CREATIVE lawsuit and countersuit mess, they are just making sure they have everything covered if they are going to stay on top.
"BLATANT PATENT ADVERTISING" - it's like saying a woman that is 9 months pregnant is BLATANTLY ADVERTISING she is about to have a baby.
Anybody that is paying attention is going to notice!
Other than that... I agree with everything you said.
tradewinds
May 3, 08:09 AM
I just ordered one... *happy* but why are the SSD-Drives not available at the moment? 4-6 weeks delivery... ;(
NickZac
Dec 29, 10:56 PM
I have to agree it would be interesting to watch her consume all of this.
SchneiderMan
Oct 25, 01:44 AM
World Peace first.
displaced
Jul 30, 06:32 AM
Well go and tell that to Dell and their massive market share and we'll see if they take you seriously and change their marketing strategy. Theres ideology and then theres reality, I suggest you take a trip into reality. People may think Apple is innovative but so what? Most people buy whats cheap, not whats innovative, and since Dell isnt innovative in anything they do they can afford to be cheap. We have solid proof that innovation doesnt sell as well as affordability, what is there to argue about exactly? I think Apple is perfectly fine with having such a tiny market share especially since iPod is keeping them afloat (how many billions does Jobs need? Hes probably in no rush to make mroe money), but if Apple fans expect Apple to try and get more market share then they should expect them to lower their prices and offer things like Dell.
This is why I'm not too concerned about Apple getting Dell-like levels of marketshare.
I see value in both Apple's hardware and their software. In fact, I see more value in the software than the hardware. However, they make most of the money from the hardware, so in effect I'm helping the continued development of Apple's software with my hardware purchases.
If Apple sold machines for Dell prices, they'd only be able to afford to produce machines and software like Dell. Goodbye iWork, OS X, CoreVideo, xnu, Darwin, Quartz, Cocoa, Carbon, Xcode, Filemaker, Safari, iChat, Final Cut, Aperture, iMovie, iDVD, QuickTime, GarageBand, AppleScript, Compressor, Motion, Soundtrack, Logic, Shake, Xsan, WebObjects, ARD, iTunes... Most of these products existed pre-iPod. Heck, the money for iPod development probably initially came from Mac and software sales.
Some of Apple's business does intersect with Dell's, but I don't think it's fair to compare the companies as a whole directly. What's good for Dell isn't necessarily good for Apple. Dell's business is low-margin, high-volume and is specialised(*). They integrate components, and shift boxes. If what you need is a box of parts that'll run Windows, then Dell's a good place to buy. But for a sizeable number of people (over a million per quarter), Apple's a better fit.
A 'large' market share isn't ideal for Apple's business, simply because of the concessions required to reach it would kill the company. What's ideal is a sustainable market share. I think they've got the strategy right: keep developing products which are attractive, price them according to the balance between customer acceptance and fiscal needs, and (above all) simply be around to provide a good platform which is self-sustainable.
Most people may well buy cheap. But there's a market for Apple's products, and it's looking stable, with signs of measured growth. Sounds good to me.
(* - it may seem odd to call Dell's products specialised. But they are. Dell's basically a one-trick pony. Their business model allows little else. Consider how long it took them to consider AMD processors. The contemporary wisdom has been that the reason was twofold. Firstly, they were quite likely getting superb prices for Intel processors, and advertising money from Intel that may have been threatened by including AMD models. But also, it was noted that adding AMD machines would introduce an amount of complexity to Dell's supply chain management that could impact their margins. They had to wait until the potential market for AMD-based Dell machines was guaranteed to be large enough that it would offset the costs of diversifying. Dell has very limited flexibility. It has historically worked for them, but investors have been twitch recently over multiple profit warnings from the company)
This is why I'm not too concerned about Apple getting Dell-like levels of marketshare.
I see value in both Apple's hardware and their software. In fact, I see more value in the software than the hardware. However, they make most of the money from the hardware, so in effect I'm helping the continued development of Apple's software with my hardware purchases.
If Apple sold machines for Dell prices, they'd only be able to afford to produce machines and software like Dell. Goodbye iWork, OS X, CoreVideo, xnu, Darwin, Quartz, Cocoa, Carbon, Xcode, Filemaker, Safari, iChat, Final Cut, Aperture, iMovie, iDVD, QuickTime, GarageBand, AppleScript, Compressor, Motion, Soundtrack, Logic, Shake, Xsan, WebObjects, ARD, iTunes... Most of these products existed pre-iPod. Heck, the money for iPod development probably initially came from Mac and software sales.
Some of Apple's business does intersect with Dell's, but I don't think it's fair to compare the companies as a whole directly. What's good for Dell isn't necessarily good for Apple. Dell's business is low-margin, high-volume and is specialised(*). They integrate components, and shift boxes. If what you need is a box of parts that'll run Windows, then Dell's a good place to buy. But for a sizeable number of people (over a million per quarter), Apple's a better fit.
A 'large' market share isn't ideal for Apple's business, simply because of the concessions required to reach it would kill the company. What's ideal is a sustainable market share. I think they've got the strategy right: keep developing products which are attractive, price them according to the balance between customer acceptance and fiscal needs, and (above all) simply be around to provide a good platform which is self-sustainable.
Most people may well buy cheap. But there's a market for Apple's products, and it's looking stable, with signs of measured growth. Sounds good to me.
(* - it may seem odd to call Dell's products specialised. But they are. Dell's basically a one-trick pony. Their business model allows little else. Consider how long it took them to consider AMD processors. The contemporary wisdom has been that the reason was twofold. Firstly, they were quite likely getting superb prices for Intel processors, and advertising money from Intel that may have been threatened by including AMD models. But also, it was noted that adding AMD machines would introduce an amount of complexity to Dell's supply chain management that could impact their margins. They had to wait until the potential market for AMD-based Dell machines was guaranteed to be large enough that it would offset the costs of diversifying. Dell has very limited flexibility. It has historically worked for them, but investors have been twitch recently over multiple profit warnings from the company)
sporadicMotion
Nov 24, 03:26 PM
A pair of these
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQt4n6Q9MU4-IkNnwAJ_lWLpNuOGWKJvLOTzCw3pH3ByqeyG1hb
and one of these
http://www.podcastalley.com/forum/geek/gars/images/1/5/0/0/4/3/vRNC.jpg
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQt4n6Q9MU4-IkNnwAJ_lWLpNuOGWKJvLOTzCw3pH3ByqeyG1hb
and one of these
http://www.podcastalley.com/forum/geek/gars/images/1/5/0/0/4/3/vRNC.jpg
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